Thursday, 27 January 2011

On Islam III

Me

hello dear brother
16:18مارویس

hello sir ji

how are you
16:18Me

fine

you have gone Arabic?
16:19مارویس

ahaha

its farsi

persian
16:19Me

I see

the script is the same?
16:19مارویس

yeah less difference
16:19Me

I see

Is the language derived from Avestan language?
16:20مارویس

Persian is a branch of Indo-European language

but Arabic is Semic
16:20Me

okay

I am traveling around these days
16:22مارویس

nice

where are now?
16:22Me

I returned yesterday from Baroda

now i am in Delhi
16:23مارویس

ok
16:23Me

You wrote an interesting point on three types of Islam
16:23مارویس

its from my article recently i published in kabul
16:24Me

what was your argument?
16:24مارویس

the ways how to amalgmate all these three
16:25Me

how will you do that?
16:25مارویس

to finish social inconsistencis within islamic society
16:25Me

wonderful

but how to achieve it?
16:26مارویس

many ways are there
16:26Me

like:
16:26مارویس

to establish DARUL TAQRIB MAZAHIB

i dont know how to translate
16:27Me

you can elaborate
16:28مارویس

once during Abbasid caliphate we had a discussion home of all different sects in islam
16:28Me

I see
16:28مارویس

so during that period we did not have problem in society
16:28Me

okay
16:29مارویس

I also belive that intellectual or literal unity is an opium
16:29Me

yes

we should never be united or we should never believe in same thing in minor things

but in socia; practices or in society we should be united
16:30Me

kind of Islamic pluralism
16:30مارویس

it is kind of Dialectic

yes with tolerance
16:31Me

okay

Do you know Ziauddin Sardar?
16:31مارویس

no

who is he
16:32Me

He is a British citizen

of Pakistani origin
16:32مارویس

k
16:32Me

I read his book

Journey of a sceptical Muslim
16:32مارویس

ok
16:33Me

http://www.ziauddinsardar.com/

He is dissatisfied with almost all brands of Islam
16:33مارویس

tnx

ok
16:34Me

but he is devoted to Prophet and the Holy Book
16:34مارویس

ok

for islam that is important only
16:34Me

The book was his autobiography
16:35مارویس

branches and sects are not principle

ok
16:35Me

It gave a pictureof all divergent thinkings within Islam

What about Muslim interactions with non-Muslims?

like in Indian civilization
16:36مارویس

?
16:37Me

like we in India are trying to build an Indian civilization

How can Islam participate in the process?
16:37مارویس

Islam can not participate in that

because there are these attempts like Indian, Persian, Tukish and all other civilization
16:38Me

okay
16:38مارویس

kind of nationalism
16:39Me

yes
16:39مارویس

but islam rejects nationalism at all
16:39Me

yes
16:39مارویس

may be some muslim joins individually as political process
16:39Me

I see
16:39مارویس

but religiously islam as religion does not support

and Muslim see india as a thread to islam
16:40Me

then what is the world-view of Islam towards other religions?

should they all cease to exist?

merge into Islam?
16:40مارویس

yes they can be exist

it is better if they merge to islam but as far as they dont so we live in peace and respect
16:41Me

okay
16:42مارویس

Till they dont disturb us we live in peace with them, but from the time they stop us for preaching then JIHAD
16:42Me

will it involve bloodshed?
16:43مارویس

Jihad? yes

Me

I see
16:44مارویس

second jihad or small jihad is bloodshed
16:44Me

I understand

But does islam allow any flexibility to philosophical discourse?
16:45مارویس

yes

always

Islam has its own philosophy
16:45Me

like can there be any space for Vedanta
16:45مارویس

Al Farabi
16:45Me

or Yoga system?
16:46مارویس

like what?
16:46Me

Al Farabi is only one philosopher
16:47مارویس

no

Ghazali

Avicina

Mawardi
16:47Me

Is there debate?

and challenge?
16:47مارویس

Ibn Khaldun

yes many

But one thing is there i told u before too
16:48Me

But the debate always has to be subordinate to Quran and Prophet
16:48مارویس

Absolute unity

Last prophecy of Muhammad

life after death

all debatea are other than these three
16:49Me

I see

what about karma theory?

transmigration of the soul
16:50مارویس

no
16:50Me

varnasrama dharma
16:50مارویس

Avicina debated
16:50Me

I see
16:50مارویس

but he was killed

Al Musa Al Khawarzmi also debated this

some people they debated
16:51Me

I see

But can they be debated again in new light?
16:52مارویس

three problems
16:52Me

what?
16:52مارویس

1- Islamic philosophy is died after golden era finished

2- Almost all sects accepted some general belives

3- Irtidad
16:53Me

what is Irtidad?
16:55مارویس

I think Apososy

Apostosy
16:55Me

Apostasy
16:55مارویس

To reject someone from islam

kicking out
16:56Me

but the believes can change
16:56مارویس

like Salman rushdie
16:56Me

I see
16:56مارویس

no

not principle belive
16:57Me

if they are within Quran and Prophet teachings?
16:57مارویس

yes

Like this fasting

if any muslim rejects then he is not muslim
16:57Me

Ramazan

5 pillars of Islam
16:58مارویس

he can do this not to keep fast

but he cant say it is not in islam

yes
16:58Me

I see
16:59مارویس

one group of American Black new converted

were fasting in december for one month
17:00Me

I see
17:00مارویس

then first of january was thier Eid

but all islamic communities rejected them as musllim

thier leader was Alija Mohammad
17:00Me

they rejected the Muslim calender
17:00مارویس

and then they left this practice and become like us
17:00Me

I see
17:01مارویس

they thought it is possible to fiz islamic practice in according with time

they were calling thier mosques as temple
17:02Me

Oh!
17:02مارویس

but now all these finished and become muslis like other

Michael Jackson was that muslim

Mike Thomson
17:03Me

okay
17:03مارویس

But now they dont do this
17:04Me

I see

My concern is can you co-exist with other doctrines

like Jews who disobeyed Allah

Christians who gave him company
17:05مارویس

first you say can two god can be exist
17:05Me

and Dharmic religions who do not accept allah

No, two Gods cannot exist

only one God can exist
17:06مارویس

Then yes co-existing is possible

but problem is in practices

way of practice

and this can never be solved
17:07Me

yes
17:07مارویس

we say

Hindusim is the most irrational religion in world and the most dirty believes
17:08Me

yes

17:08مارویس

because human does not have position in it

they worship the things that they make

they diverse society
17:08Me

okay
17:09مارویس

thousands gods

All childlish practices

though

Veda is a good book

but who looks in it

Although it is not a Divine book
17:10Me

I see
17:10مارویس

but some good Rishis have written
17:10Me

But according to us, Veda is the cognitive aspect of God
17:10مارویس

those who knew about Allah

there is a thesis
17:11Me

That is Veda is eternal knowledge

sum total of all knowledge
17:11مارویس

Crisis creates unity
17:11Me

please explain
17:12مارویس

when war was going in Afghanistan

Many christains socity funded Afghan Mujahidin against soviet

they belived this is a war against atheism

though it may be political tricks but
17:13Me

yes
17:13مارویس

the reality is that in these three religion

Hinduism is not a divine or true religion

and can not be accepted

It should be totally rejected
17:14Me

Actually, Hinduism is not a proper term
17:14مارویس

ok
17:14Me

but basically, we accept that only one religion exists

that is the relation of the soul with God
17:15مارویس

yeah like Islamic Sufism
17:15Me

may be

I can quote Madhvacharya
17:16مارویس

ok
17:16Me

nine principles
17:17Me

1. Visnu is Supreme.
2. He is known by the study of the Vedas.
3. The Material world is real.
4. The jivas are different from the Lord.
5. The jivas are by nature subservient to the Lord.
6. In both the conditioned and liberated condition, the jivas are situated in higher and lower statuses.
7. Liberation is the attainment of Lord Visnu’s lotus-feet.
8. Pure devotion grants liberation.
9. Direct perception, logic and Vedic authority are the three sources of actual knowledge.

these are nine conclusions of vedas

17:19مارویس

ok

visnu is the only god?

means tht Allah
17:19Me

Visnu means all pervading

that is the translation

omnipresent
17:20مارویس

ok

not tht Vishnu?

3murty
17:21Me

That is the same

trimurti is just guna avataras

goodness

passion

ignorance
17:22مارویس

they are physically also there

or only adjectives or meanings
17:22Me

They are like many servants of the Supreme Absolute

who govern the diffrent worlds

we have calculated total 8 million 400 thousand species of life

created by god
17:24مارویس

this Shiava, Vishnu and Brahma are not that Ishawar?

ok
17:24Me

something like that

but there are a few concepts which is not understandable to Islam

like avatar

and transmigration of soul
17:25مارویس

ok
17:26Me

actually, everything in this world is seen as part of the universal form of God
17:26مارویس

we say it Wahdatul Wajud
17:27Me

parts and not the whole

parts and not the whole
17:27مارویس

in islamic tasawuf
17:27Me

I see

But God is a Supreme independent person
17:27مارویس

ok Sharma sir i m going to pray now
17:27Me

O, yes

please

it must be time
17:28مارویس

Inshallah we will talk next time
17:28Me

yes
17:28مارویس

im learning thngs so m happy
17:28Me

if the Lord desires

good

bye

wish you pious Ramazan
17:29مارویس

tnx

bye

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