Thursday, 27 January 2011

On Islam and Veda

hello

how are you?

fine sir ji
how r u
how is ur health

I am alright
health is improving

good
wish u b fine soooooooooooooon

thanks
I wanted to discuss something

yes
plz

what is anl haq?

I am God

Oh

It is a Sufi Cocept
concept

Is there such philosophy in Islam?

Haq means Right
Means no doubt
There is a concept in Islam as ¨Concept of Universal Unity_
By Sufis
They say that every thing belongs to God and is a part of Him
so we are half human and half god
if we kill our hearthly part
then we are nothing
we are God

Oh

So Mansur Hallaj was saying
but he was hunged

so, what is the concept of Islam?

See this idea was given by Ibn Arabi

okay

a Spanish Muslim philosopher

so, is it acceptable under Islam?

and his ideas was opposed by many muslims
yes even Iqbal believed
Rumi
and many

okay

but all believe that Mansur went extreme

I see

But one concept is general in Islam
that Human´s spirit is from God

okay

we call it ROH

So, God creates Roh out of Himself?
and does it merge with Him again?

Human is two part
Material and Spirit
Material vanish when we die and join other materials in univers
but spirit never die
It is alive always

But what about resurrection of the bodies during Apocalypse
?
Do the bodies rise again?

Yes then in Qiyamat the bodies again rise
Quran says
:
all chemical materials go to thier parts again

okay

then in doomsday all spirit come back to bodies
bodies re shape
and we all will be gather
infront of Allah
who is the supreme judge
Then every one has to pass his counting
our goodness and badness

one clarification:

ok

when God says BE
what is created?
Roh or body?

for nay thing
e.g
if he says BE to a tree
to earth
to human body
to any thing
cloud
star
moon
So all created in this process

so, He creates everything separately
or He creates the first cause
and thjen everything proceeds automatically according to His laws

yes

which one?

He gives order individaully
and then that thing happens

like a new baby is born

yes

then its Roh
is it created
the body proceeds from the parents

Roh i think is not created
yes same way

Is the Roh eternal?

means?

is it one orseparate from God?
is it always existing with Allah?

No

or it is created afterwards

Roh is not seperate
but it has been given to human being
it will remain with us

I mean human body is created
like a new baby
it is born

See befor these I tell some thing

where does the Roh come from?
is it there before the baby is born?
or created and sent to the body lateer?

Once a group of Jews came to Prophet Muhammad and asked about |Roh|

okay

then prophet said wait because I dont know and I have to ask my Allah, means he was waiting for revelation
then a verse was reveled
That:
" ( the concept of spirit is very complicated and with this senses you dont have power to know) so if they ask you about ROH, then tell them that Roh is of God only"

okay
the conclusion is that the Roh belongs to God

So from this verse many Islamic theologian stoped going deep in to concept of ROH
Yes
But still there are thinkers who discuss
but my theology is not well
Student of Politics


ell me the verse yu quoted earlier

?

about Qayamat?

ok
then every one stand for judgement
and according to the capacity of our actions
we deserve our rewards
Paradise our Hell
different levels in paradise and Hell again

okay

Like
Ferdous is highest level of paradise
and Jahanum is of Hell

there are 4 in tattal?
total?
sorry
14*

yes
of both
and one in between
not paradise and not hell

7 heavens and 7 hells?

for children and good peaople of non believers

this earthly relam

yes

I see
so, what is the total?

15

and the break-up?

??

I mean 7 heavens+7 hells+ i in-between+ the earthly realm?

yes

and allah is where, besides being everywhere?

no idea

okay
the seat of allah?

He did not give his address

Prophet visited it?

That we dont know
No
Prophet can never visit him
He only went sky and talked but never seen

I see

he visited paradise and hell

only angels can visit Him?

No
they also cant

Adam was with Him
?

No

I see

See
It was a metaphysical visit
But ofcourse prophet we believe that went Physically
But he visited other prophets in a metaphysical manner
because they are all died

I see
may be he visited their Rohs?

yes

in the intermediate world?

?

What was the name?
where the Rohs go?

Barzakh

yes

yes may be there

okay
In Srimad Bhagavatam, 14 planetary systems are described

ok

besides, some intermediate worlds

so what are they?

7 upper worlds
including earthly realm
7 underworlds

ok

hells are discussed separately

not in this 14

below that

ok

that is where the angels of death reside

ok
then what is concept of this 14
for what

There are 7 upper worlds
where one goes by performing pious activities
according to Vedas

k
ok

but if you want to enjoy otherwise, the demons live in underworld
the 7 below

ok
there is no enjoyment in 7 upper

there is
but according to Vedas
not whimsical

ok

you have to perform yajnas there

Yajna?

Yajna means sacrifice for the pleasure of Visnu

what is pleasure of Vishnu

He creates certain laws and prescriptions
like for sex-life there is marriage
and then children

ok

for food
you have to cultivate
and offer it to Him

ok

in this way
they enjoy
but in earth
you have both the choices
as you wish

ok

according to or against the Vedas

ok

if you perfrom according, you move up
if you perform against you go down

but this up and downs are in this world
I mean what is concept of transnational of soul
Mirwais is offline.
Mirwais is online.

This is the samsara
the world of conditioned beings

So where is this down and up planetary

total 84,00,000 speceis

ok

the geography is given in details

ok

from the sun to the polestar, it is the Swarga

um

the 5th upper system

ok

beyond that is not visible to us

ok

below Swarga is the world

ok

of other lower deigods
and below that the 7th system
is earthly realm
consisting of 7 islands
below the earthly system are the underworlds

acha

which are also not visble

ok
So what is your concept of Trinity
Trimurthy

Trinity is a Christian concept
Our is triguna

Shiva-Vishnu and Brahma I mean
ok

There are three modes of nature

ok

and three major functions
creation-passion
maintenance-goodness
destruction-ignornace
they are three gods of the three modes
Then there are many other demigods
actually, there are beings in the entire universe
even in Sun
It is described
in Bhagavatam
Their body is made of fire
Vivasvan is there king

ok
So these three are God or not

God means Isvara
controller
all are tiny gods
But Supreme Controller is Narayana, who incarnates as Visnu
and His multiforms

ok

This is known as polymorphic monotheism
One can become many

So Ishwar come in form for Vishnu

yes

ok

I mean all of us have some property
we have Iswar property in little aounts
Brahma has 78%

So Shiva worship Vishnu

Shiva has 86%
Yes, Shiva is meditating on Rama

what r these property

They are described by great teachers
there are total 64 properties
but these are just what humans can describe
actually, God is inconceivable
Mirwais is offline.

16:00
achinya bhedabheda tattva (send as a message)
Your chat message wasn't sent because Mirwais is offline.


ok

ahintya bhedabheda tattva
The revelation says
both bheda
and abheda
form and formless
one and many

ok

There is contradiction

ok

so, the teachers are speculating

yes

may be this or may be that

ok

There are many philosophical schools in Vedas

interpretation of the texts

yes
But it is fact
that there is both bheda
and abheda

so which one is close to u

We accept inconceivability doctrine
we accept the contradictions

both

and then say it is the inconceivable power of God

I am reading Gita recently

All are one in quality, but different in proportion

I have finished Mahabharata

Ah
Which edition do you have?
of Gita
?

A c B Sawami Prabhapada
long name

Whre did you get it?

From JNU

someone gave it?

No Myself bought
but yes one person brought

okay
In Vedic system,
there are prasthana trayi
three texts to establish your doctrine
1. Upanishads
2. Bhagavad ita
3. Vedanta Sutra

all are book

yes
Prabhupada has written commentaries
Isopanishad
Bhagavad Gita As it is
Srimad Bhagavatm 18 volumes
SB is considered the commentary on all three (send as a message)
Your chat message wasn't sent because Mirwais is offline.
Mirwais is online.

SB is considered the commentary on all three (send as a message)
Your chat message wasn't sent because Mirwais is offline.
Mirwais is online.

i have that as it is one

SB is considered the commentary on all three
yes

Bhagavad Gita As it is

yes

so this one i can rwad

yes

ok
it is authentic

yes

I read Mahabhatara
also

That is Itihasa

Yes

not philoophical text

So Gita is inside Mahabharata yes

Gita is part of Mahabharaat
yes

ok

Which edition did you read?
how big it was?

It was like a thick book
double size of this Gita

By Krishna Dharma?

I forgot may be
Book is with some of my friend now

Anyway, it is a historical, political, economic, sociological text

yes

basically, a book about morality

ok

like Draupadi is asking

Pechali

how can Yudhisthirabet me in gambling?

Penchali

Panchali

yes

yes

Pechali

she is princess of Panchala country

ok

so, she is called Panchali

ok

It is a difficult question
even Bhisma, the great authority on morality cannot reply

yes but fraud is also alot by many people like
Dhriyodan

yes

and others
Princess Gandhari

Basically, another question of morality

Sorry prince

who is rightfully the king?
Duryodhana or Yudhisthira?

And King is too weak

yes
He wants his son to be king
he is actually the elder brother
but blind

but all in mahabharata have divine powers

not really

like Bhisma
Arjun
Karna

its some supramundane powers
powerful weapons
mantras could be used as weapons

ok

physical strength
also
Only Krishna is divine

ok

He is declared as syvayam bhagavan in Bhagavatam
He has all 64 qualities
100%
no one else has

ok

even Visnu form does not
That is theology of Bhagavata

ok
Bhagavata?

There are two Itihasa

some theologian

no
Bhagavata means Srimad Bhgavatm
Bhagavata is the ancient religion of the Vedas practised by Vaisnavas
Two Itihasas are:
Ramayana and Mahabharata
original Ramayana
by Valmiki

ok

then there are 18 Puranas
and 18 subordinate Puranas
Srimad Bhagaatm is also a Purana
let me state:
4 veda samhitas
Rig
Yajur
Sama
Atharva
Brahmanas
Aranyakas
Upanishads
6 vedangas
4 upavedas
This sruti
or revelation
Then the histories
or subordinate theologies
as i already described
Itihasas
and Puranas

k

then There are philosophical, legal, political, etc.
all kinds of texts
Have you heard of Manu Samhita
?

no

no

Ah
there is so much discussion in JNU?

King Manu?

yes
It is a legal text

ok
yea but not a lot

You know Zoroaster
He is mentioned in Vedas as Zarathustra
He broke away from Vedas and established his own religion
in Persia
Buddha also broke away
Mahavir broke away
Then there is also the materialistic school
Kabir was did not accept Vedas

yes
ok

so, his follower Nanak made new religion
Sikhism

yes

Then there are ancient sects also
Shaivites

So Zoarster, Mahavir, Budha, Kabir and Nanak are

yes

anti vedas

wholly or in part
Nanak compromises
Kabir was clearly against
But RSS and all
are trying to say that all are same
But it is not true
There is no single Hindu religion
Like Shaivites
they say where Visnu or Narayana are called Supreme in Vedas

will talk to u later sir

it actually refers to Shiva

little

okay

sorry

Its okay
I was feeling bored
so, was discussing with you
thanks you
a guest ame to me now
have to talk with them
will catch u sir
got many things

16:40
okay
bye

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