Tuesday, 23 February 2010

Metaphyiscs: Sankhya, Mayavada and Vaisnava siddhanta

Saurav Sarmah: The mind is a rascal. When our consciousness hovers on the mental platform, we feel that we are at a very high stage. But actually it leads us nowhere and leads to frustration.

Meera Nair, Deep Saikia, Prashenjit Dutta and 3 others like this.

Metaladdict Dutta: good Morning !!! welcome Saurav..

Saurav Sarmah: thanks metal!

Sonali Das: Welcome back Saurav...where are you these dayz? what all these ? is it a Facebook trick or you bit a freak !!!!

Deep Saikia: Glad to see u again... Saurav.. We r missed u...

Subhankar Karmakar: what is mind?
it's a perennial quest of human civilization in search of which hundreds of thousands minds spent their life time just like chasing a mirage! but, what is the material basis of our mind? is it the "status update" of our information databases those are well preserved inside our brain's memory? or, is it some transcendental phenomenon. many religions and theological societies often tried to explain mind in terms of material as well as "spirito-transcendental" forms. many eastern philosophical lines of thought often tried to describe it. the best explanations, according to me are the explanations told to Arjun, the great warrior by his mentor-"sakha" The Lord Krishna in Hindu advaita philosophy! Is it indeed a trancendental phenomenon? Where each and every human being is connected to the Supreme God Head through Radio waves?

Lalit Sharma: Righteousness and unrighteousness, pleasure and pain are purely of the mind and are no concern of yours. You are neither the doer nor the reaper of the consequences, so you are always free. I understand now is the time to graduate to Ashtavakra Mahageeta from the Geeta. Hope it will clear more of your doubts u seems to be a better student than Arjuna like Janaka.

Saurav Sarmah: Thanks Sonali and Deep. I was fighting against Maya. The fight is still on, but the last week was very difficult. Krishna saved me from doom.

Subhankar Karmakar: The whole universe is Hologram Saurav, so everything that we can percept is nothing but Maya!
Only Supreme God Head is true in absolute terms.

Saurav Sarmah: Thank you Subhankar and Lalit for the discussion. Let me try to explain the Bhaktivedanta explanation of the phenomenon:

BG 7.4: Earth, water, fire, air, ether, mind, intelligence and false ego — all together these eight constitute My separated material energies.

BG 7.5: Besides these, O mighty-armed Arjuna, there is another, superior energy of Mine, which comprises the living entities who are exploiting the resources of this material, inferior nature.

Krishna clearly says that mind is a material element, not a transcendental entity. The living entities or spirit soul are pure, trancendental elements. But they are interacting with matter in our conditioned state. Therefore, several layers of existence are created by the external potency of Krishna, Mayadevi.

According to Lord Kapila (Sankhya darsan), the material realm consists of 24 elements, viz.,
1. 5 gross elements: earth, water, fire, air and ether.
2. 3 subtle elements: mind, intelligence and false ego.
3. 5 cognitive senses: eyes, ears, nose, tongue and skin.
4. 5 working senses: voice, hands, legs, anus and genitals.
5. 5 sense perceptions: sound, touch, form, taste and smell.
6. The unmanifested primordial matter, pradhana.

Subhankar Karmakar: Thanks saurav, i want to explore more of this phenomenon, as my prime interest on the topic of human feelings on entity.

Saurav Sarmah: There is a big difference in the analysis of truth between the two dominant schools of thought in Vedanta darsan, Mayavada and Vaisnava siddhanta.

Mayavada claims: brahma satyam jagan mitya/ jivo brahmaiva na para: This material world is an illusion (to be more precise, falsity) and only trancendence is the reality. The variegated living entities in this material world are a unity. The variety is a product of illusion.

Vaisnava siddhanta, on the other hand, accepts the material world as real, but temporary. Since Maya is also an energy of the Lord, it should not be rejected. It should be spiritualized by engaging in the service of the Lord. The Supreme Lord is an eternal trancendental personality and living beings are His eternal part and parcel. They are separate individuals, not a single supraconscious unity.

Chaitanya Mahaprabhu has warned us: mayavadi bhasya sunile haya sarvanash. If one happens to listen to Mayavada interpretation of the scriptures, one's spiritual understanding is bewildered. He further states: mayavadi krishne aparadhi. One who accepts Mayavada misinterpretation becomes an offender to Krishna because it rejects the personal nature of the Lord and considers the infinitesimal living entities as one with the Supreme Lord.


Subhankar Karmakar: thanks saurav i am goin to check them now

Kasturi Chatterjee: What does it (the status) mean? From rascal to material/ transcendental to Mayavad and its opposite... very confusing. Is there no simple explanation that even common people can understand?

Saurav Sarmah: Actually, I was just stating my own realization. but then the discussion entered the philosophical realm. I shall clarify things in a later post. Thank you Kasturi for bringing me back on the ground. We sometimes tend to get too far in our thoughts ignoring whether the ideas are communicable to others or not.

Kasturi Chatterjee: Okay, so that is the explanation. I was confused because I thought all are related and it made sense to everybody except me. :(

Saurav Sarmah :)

Subhankar Karmakar: @kasturi
Sorry, everyone if I brought any confusing element in the discussion... but my primary concern was role of mind in describing our entity and existence, which somehow is related with simulated reality ie. maya, hence I couldn't restrict myself but to speak. Sorry, kasturi.

Kasturi Chatterjee: @Subhankar: Please don't be sorry- the fault is mine. I had no intention of disrupting such a spiritually edifying, intelligent, serious philosophical discussion. In my ignorance, I thought they have a linear coherence and wished Saurav put things simply so that I could understand.

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